By Stephen “Breadman” Edwards
The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen “Breadman” Edwards giving his thoughts on what life looks like in the heavyweight division following Anthony Joshua’s two-round destruction of Francis Ngannou, and looking ahead to the summer event featuring Mike Tyson and Jake Paul.
Hi Bread
In the aftermath of AJs KO over Ngannou it seems to me that well known MMA fighters are more likely to fight boxers under boxing rules than well known boxers want to fight MMA fighters under MMA rules. I’m guessing there may be two reasons. One is that there is more money in boxing, at least for the top guys. Two; an MMA fighter is used to being punched though boxers have more punching skills than MMA fighters. But a boxer in an MMA fight, would be subject to being injured by a kick,a throw or a submission hold. Such an injury would delay the continuation of a boxing career.
Again, it’s a guess. Am I right in assuming most trainers would discourage developing boxers from mixing the two? After all, Fury and AJ were already established.
Recently, Floyd Mayweather gave credit to past greats,but maintained that HE is ‘The Best Ever.’
Of course, that’s Floyd being Floyd. Great though he is at 147, I don’t bet on him over SRR, SRL, Armstrong, Burley or Hearns. I don’t think he has an easy time with Emile Griffith. Now that he’s retired, where would you rate him in the divisions in which he’s competed?
GGG seems obviously retired. And, of course, mhe was avoided by numerous possible opponents. For many, he deserved the win rather than a draw in the first fight with Canelo. Great as Canelo is, he seemed to pick the right time for GGG. Where would you rate GGG historically?
I’m guessing most rate him well, though not with Greb, Robinson, Hagler, Monzon or Hopkins.
As always, thanks for your combination of knowledge, fairness and high standards. Terry
Bread’s Response: I agree with your take on Boxing vs MMA and vice a versa. MMA fighters have more experience boxing, than boxers do wrestling and kicking. It’s not to say that no boxer can make the transition but it’s more common for MMA fighters to get involved in boxing. On top of that the money in boxing is better. A lot better.
It’s one thing to compete. But it’s different to practise. I’m a boxing trainer and I think wrestling as part of your boxing training is essential because it builds stamina and grapple strength for the clinches.
Floyd Mayweather is a rare fighter. Because he doesn’t have a major drop off in his performances as he got older, it’s hard to determine when his prime even ended. If I’m rating him in the divisions he fought in. Here is where I would rank him.
Junior Lightweight (130lbs) He has a has a case for being #1 ever. If he would have unified it would be hard to keep him out of the top spot. Right now I say he’s top 3 along with Arguello and Chavez. All 3 have strong cases for #1. And it’s hard to determine #1 clear cut.
Lightweight (135lbs) IS the division in which Floyd struggled the most. He had 2 close calls with Jose Luis Castillo. A tough night vs Victor Sosa and he even had a tough scrap vs Emanuel Augustus in a non-title fight. I don’t know if it was the opponents or just a slight slump but this was Floyd’s toughest division in terms of his performances. I don’t rate him in the top 10 ever at 135 but head to head he can beat a lot of the fighters ranked over him.
Junior Welterweight (140lbs) He looked great at 140lbs but he only stayed there for 3 fights. Again he doesn’t make the ATG top 10 but head to head he can beat a lot of the greats at 140lbs. I think it was a natural weight for him and he would’ve been a terror at 140lbs.
Welterweight (147lbs) He spent more years at welterweight than he did any other division. Welterweight historically is boxing’s best division. Floyd won the IBF, WBC, WBA and WBO titles at different points of his welterweight run. He never held all 4 at one time but that’s still a major accomplishment. He also beat his biggest rival at 147 in Manny Pacquiao. His resume at 147 is Sharmba Mitchell, Zab Judah, Carlos Baldomir, Ricky Hatton, Juan Manuel Marquez, Shane Mosley, Victor Ortiz, Robert Guerrero, Marcos Maidana, Manny Pacquiao and Andre Berto. That’s a solid resume. He has a real case for being top 10-12 ever at 147lbs or maybe even higher.
Junior Middleweight (154lbs) He won the Junior Middleweight 3x from 3 HOF. He’s the only person in history to do so. I think most of the great JMW in history are a little big for him head to head like Hearns, McCallum and Norris. But in terms of significance and rankings, I think he’s in the top 10 at 154 because of his wins over Oscar, Cotto and Canelo.
GGG is tough to rank. He’s easily a top 20 MW ever. But I don’t know if he has the GREAT WIN at MW to make him a top 10 guy. You’re correct you can’t put him as high as the Hopkins and Haglers. But I do think he stands in the company of the Freddie Steeles, Gene Fullmers and Tony Zales. GGG is the best MW since Bernard Hopkins left the division in 2005 for whatever that is worth. His title defenses, unification wins and consistent kos sway me to put him in somewhere between 9-12. He was a great fighter in my opinion, who was waited out and CHEATED out of a higher place historically because of modern concepts of matchmaking and bad judging.
I find it difficult to compare Anthony Joshua’s performance against Francis Ngannou to Tyson Fury’s performance against Ngannou. The reason is the old saying of “styles make fights.”
A big punching, pressure-oriented fighter like Ngannou is MADE for Anthony Joshua. That same style is probably the best path to victory against Fury. I bring this up because there seems to be a lot of talk about Joshua’s resurgence. Am I being unfair to Joshua or does the boxing media need to recognize different boxing styles before jumping on the “Joshua is back” narrative?
Thank you so much!
Bread’s Response: You’re being extremely unfair to Anthony Joshua. The guy has taken loads of criticism since he lost to Andy Ruiz. Now he’s seen to resurge and the critics don’t want to give him his props. Joshua not only outperformed Fury vs Ngannou but he outperformed him vs Otto Wallin also. I thought Wallin would give Joshua hell and he destroyed him. That was impressive. Wallin and Ngannou are polar opposites. So if the Ngannou win matches up great with Fury, does Wallin match up great with him also?
Sometimes people look for their subjective preference to prove the point they WANT to be true. Instead of letting the evidence take them, wherever it takes them. I don’t know if Joshua is better than Fury. Time will tell. But what I do believe to be true is, he’s more disciplined and he takes boxing more serious. You can obviously see Joshua’s preparation for Ngannou was superior to Fury’s. And AJ should not be devalued because he decided to show up in shape and focused. That’s ridiculous if you think about it. Joshua did his thing and he deserves props for his recent run. He’s a quality fighter who has overcome a lot.
Was good brother Bread!
- Fair play to Parker & AJ getting back on track & staying active. US fighters are the best, but too inactive & never wanna take short money to stay active & it ends up backfiring on them (see Wilder, Thurman, Spence etc.) Tank & Crawford are 2 of the biggest stars today but way too inactive. I always said AJ legitimately tried to fight Fury & Wilder, but they froze him out due to jealousy/politics. I can only hope we get AJ-Fury end of 2024/early 2025.
- I’ve lost the excitement for the Haney-Garcia fight tbh. The tweeting from Ryan has turned me off, I don’t see him being in boxing or being at an elite level in the next 5 years. I see a guy who’s impatient & not improving. He still makes technical mistakes & his matchmaking timing is poor. He should’ve took a tune-up before fighting Tank & he should’ve took one more fight before Devin. I suspect Oscar knows this, but due to their crumbling relationship he figures he may as well cash him out, it is what it is.
- I know everyone is upset it’s not Benavidez, but this a great fight for Canelo. This is an underrated fight and will do numbers on PPV, especially with Hispanics. A young undefeated hungry Mexican who fights at a fast pace. He could possibly carry Canelo. Where I give Canelo the edge is that Jaime struggled with Dervychenko at times so there you go. People say Canelo’s best wins are fighters not in their prime, but he doesn’t get enough credit for the Plant & Saunders wins & this would go right up there with them.
- How would Lennox Lewis fair vs Tyson & Holyfield in 1996?
Thanks as always for devoting your time to answer our questions.
Bread’s Response: 1. Activity is important. In a skill based sport repetition is very important. But it’s more than the inactivity. It’s the distractions and social media that add on to that. Fighters/athletes today are being driven crazy by social media. It’s toxic and the fighters aren’t balancing the social media dilemma. They let too much get negativity seep into their conscious.
On top of that, they’re inactive and 40lbs over their division weights. It’s a lot to overcome. Being DISCIPLINED in this era is challenging, when lack of discipline is being disguised as free thinking and being intelligent.
Anthony Joshua is a fighter. He has the best resume of the current heavyweights. He has some flaws but he’s rebounded and he handles winning with grace. He’s grown on me and I wish him well. I don’t claim to know what happened in his negotiations with Wilder and Fury. But what I will say, is a few years ago both would have been big favorites to beat Joshua. But if he fought either today I think the odds would be very close or possibly Joshua would be a favorite. Timing is everything in boxing and Joshua has closed the gap
- Ryan Garcia is a tremendous talent. But I agree with you about his impatience. He always seem nervey and anxiety driven. It cost him vs Tank Davis. I think it will cost him vs Devin Haney.
- Canelo vs Munguia will be a shoot out. Very rarely are big PPV fights also candidates for FOY. I think this one has a chance. I love the match up in terms of action. If Munguia’s durability is up to par, I suspect we will see something special.
- Lewis is a great fighter. He would have fared well with them in 1996. I think he would’ve beaten Tyson in 96. Tyson’s best chance to beat Lewis would have been before his prison stint. Tyson had slipped too much by 1996 to beat Lewis. Holyfield had a great year in 96 and 97. He won FOY. I think that’s a razor close fight that could go either way.
Ssup Bread,
What a performance by Joshua. I know that he only did what he was supposed to do against Ngannou but I am talking about his last three performances. He has got his confidence back and he is looking sharp as hell. I have a hunch about Fury. I feel that he is ruined for punchers due to the Wilder bouts. People say Wilder is not the same but neither is Fury. He has mental scars from the knockdowns.
I think he took Ngannou very lightly in the ring and got clipped. The moment that happened he lost his confidence and became gun shy. I could see that there were punches right there that Fury was too scared to land. Quite often his punches were from so far that even the fag-end of his punch was barely reaching Ngannou’s guard and not his chin.
Anyway, he might still do well against outfighters but I have a hunch that he no longer has the appetite for taking hard shots. What do you think? Also, who wins Fury vs Usyk?
Regards,
Saurabh
Bread’s Response: I don’t want to say Joshua did what he was SUPPOSED to do. Even though it may be true, it discredits him. Fury was the LINEAL heavyweight champion of the world. He’s the #1 guy in the division and he got dropped and had life and death with Ngannou. Joshua destroyed Ngannou and people say he did what he was supposed to do. Well was he supposed to OUTPERFORM a fighter who was universally ranked ahead of him? Maybe, maybe not but I want to give him his props.
It’s always an accomplishment to be at your best, when everyone is looking. Everyone was looking at Fury vs Ngannou then Joshua vs Ngannou. Fury didn’t perform well and Joshua did. He deserves respect for that.
It’s hard for me to get a grasp on Fury vs Usyk. I really don’t know how to take the fight and with the last postponement I would like to see how camps are going before I make a prediction. I was leaning towards Usyk if the last fight would’ve taken place. But he’s going to have to recalibrate his conditioning to get back into that type of shape again. I suspect Fury was clever in postponing their original date… We shall see…
What do you think of Ryan Garcia accusing Devin Haney of being on steroids? There are several top fighters on SNAC and they all test VADA and appear to be clean. Do you think the fight will go off on April 20th, or will they have to find a replacement for Garcia who seems to be trying to pull out.
Bread’s Response: I don’t indulge much into the internet back and forth because I don’t like where boxing is going with it. But SNAC products are over the counter products anyone can take. Protein Shakes and pre workouts. You don’t need a prescription to take them. If anyone thinks they are dirty, they should go buy them randomly and have them tested. If Ryan believes that, then that’s what he should do. Other than that, I don’t have much to say because Devin Haney is one of the few fighters who is proactive with testing. He’s the one asking his opponents to test…
Hi Breadman,
I pray God is blessing and continues to bless you and your family and the fans of your mailbag and their families.
I’m very rarely shocked in life but I am shocked by how many people are so excited about Tyson vs Paul. I haven’t seen this much interest since the Tyson vs Jones fiasco. Tyson is the biggest star in boxing He is the Teflon Don. It is like he never lost to McBride, Williams, Douglas, Holyfield, or Lewis.
The Kevin Rooney version of Tyson also went life and death with Quick Tillis. I love Mike Tyson and am a huge fan of his and would rather see him shadowbox then watch Canelo or Mayweather fight when he was in his prime but a 57yrold. Tyson vs a YouTuber exciting people like this is amazing.
It shows you that boxing needs to do a better job of marketing their sport anytime a 57yr.old relic and a YouTuber generate this kind of interest. Netflix will probably be getting 10miliion new subscribers because of this fight. Everyone I know is hype for this fight but me. I feel like I’m in the twilight zone. It is surreal . What I want to ask you Breadman is why hasn’t losing affected Tyson’s popularity like it has Roy Jones? Both got knocked out quite a few times at the end of their careers by inferior opposition but while Jone’s legacy has been tarnished it doesn’t seem to have affected Tyson’s image at all.
Do you think it is Tyson’s persona that has something to do with it?
God Bless and Take Care,
Blood and Guts from Philly
Bread’s Response: Great Question! I think Mike Tyson is the most unique fighter in history in terms of his appeal not being affected by losses. Tyson lost to Buster Douglas by ko and he was a huge favorite going into his fights with big punching Razor Ruddock. The Douglas was looked at as a fluke, even though Tyson never avenged it. Tyson was the original favorite vs Holyfield when they planned on fighting before he went to jail, despite Holyfield stopping Douglas and Douglas stopping Tyson.
Tyson went to jail for 3 years, came out and unified. Then he finally makes the Holyfield fight and he’s a 8 to 1 favorite. He gets stopped and he’s the favorite in an immediate rematch! I could see him being a small favorite in their first fight, but no way he should’ve been a favorite in their rematch after being stopped but he was.
After Holyfield he was never the same but it’s bizarre because he was always expected to win. He faces Lennox Lewis as the underdog the only time I recall him being an underdog but the fight was one of the biggest selling fights in history. Everyone was intrigued because Tyson is the wild card. He also sold well vs Roy Jones in an exhibition.
It’s something about Tyson that makes people remember the great performances and dismiss the bad ones as “off nights”. Even without proof that he can pull a rabbit out of the hat, the fans still flock to Tyson events. Personally I’m a huge Mike Tyson. He’s one of the few people in boxing I would love to sit down with and talk to. I think his common sense, wisdom and boxing knowledge are one of one. He’s simply awesome in my opinion.
But I recognize he’s 57. I recognize he was stopped by Kevin McBride about 20 years ago and Jake Paul could probably beat the best version of McBride. I suspect that if Tyson loses badly to Paul that this would be the one time he won’t be forgiven. I suspect because of the battle of Traditional Boxers vs Others that Tyson would receive brutal criticism if Jake Paul stops him. I don’t know Mike, but I hope he’s taking this fight serious.
For as weird as this may sound. I think Tyson would get more criticism if he lost to Paul at 57, than he did vs McBride almost 20 years ago. Tyson can’t lose this fight….and here is the thing that scares me for Tyson. Jake Paul is solid for the level he’s on. Paul is not a talentless scrub. He can do some things. He trains hard. He has a good coaching staff that know what they’re doing. He’s been fighting regularly. And he has some instincts.
Obviously he couldn’t go 1 round with the Tyson of 1986. But that Tyson is long gone and for some reason everyone forgets that he’s long gone. I have to admit, I’m intrigued but I’m also fearful for Tyson. Mike Tyson is too great of a fighter to be knocked out under these circumstances. And this is no knock on Paul. He’s doing his thing. But I’m a purist. I think Tyson is a top 10 heavyweight of all time and a great fighter and I don’t like to see great older fighters get KOd badly by fighters they would beat easily in their primes. Let’s see what happens.
Do you think Anthony Joshua is fighting too often? There are reports he’s already back in the gym and he’s planning on fighting in June. I know activity matters but you can also burn out if you fight too often. What are your thoughts on Joshua’s activity and how do you think this version of Joshua does against Usyk, Fury and Wilder?
Bread’s Response: Anthony knows his body. If he wants to stay active, then good for him. He’s a huge star, so he generates enough money to fight as often as he wants and that’s the way it should be. He’s a smart man and if he feels his schedule is too hectic, I assume he will scale back.
Usyk beat him twice already. For as good as Joshua looked recently, I don’t think it’s fair to Usyk to suggest a trilogy with a fighter he defeated twice in a row. Usyk is older and smaller than Joshua. They’re both ELITE. If he keeps fighting him, Joshua will win one. Let’s leave that one alone.
I always thought that Joshua matched up better with Fury than he does Wilder because Fury isn’t the quick strike KO artist that Wilder is. But I favored Fury anyway because of his confidence. I always favored Wilder big over Joshua. I no longer feel that way. Joshua is riding high and the other two are NOT. I have to see them fight at this point.
Do you think Tyson Fury is damaged goods? Wilder lost their trilogy and he’s obviously not the same. But Fury has also looked bad recently. Did he take career altering damage in the fights, even though he won them?
Bread’s Response: I was live for the 1st and 3rd Fury vs Wilder fights. And I can remember saying to myself, how many right hands can Fury take behind his left ear. I didn’t like how he looked in the third fight. He was treading water and a trained eye can see that. I don’t want to say damaged goods because Fury could’ve looked off because he didn’t take Ngannou serious. But decline is a real concern. Usyk is stronger than he looks and his straight left hand has some zip. I think he’s going to try Fury early. Usyk’s confidence will be sky high vs Fury after seeing Joshua’s performance over Ngannou….
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